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POLITICS
Bloomberg Businessweek
May 14, 2018
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had enough conidence in herself to be hum-
ble and take joy in the achievements of her peo-
ple. That is efective leadership in a way that I
didn’t see with Rudy. I didn’t know it at the time.
I thought, How cool is this? My boss is on the cov-
ers of magazines, he’s in charge of everything. I
didn’t realize until later that style makes it harder
to get the truth from your people and limits the
circle that will talk to you.
Are you surprised to see him in his current role defend-
ing the president?
No. It would’ve surprised me if you’d asked me
20 years ago, but it doesn’t now given his public role
of the last few years.
What about some of the things he’s said about you and
the FBI—calling FBI agents stormtroopers and saying
that you probably lied to Mueller?
I honestly don’t care about the stuf about me,
because others will decide that. I care very much
about the attack on the institutions, because it’s
just not true. Republicans and Democrats should
both knock it of, attacking the institutions of jus-
tice, because everybody needs them. It’s just a very
short-sighted thing and bad for the country.
You once worked for Ray Dalio, who runs the hedge
fund Bridgewater, which is notorious for its ruthless
culture. What’d you learn there?
I learned about my own weaknesses. In Ray’s
view, you’re failing if you’re not being honest. I have
a hard time delivering feedback that’s negative, and
he taught me that you’re duty-bound to be accurate.
Let’s talk about BobMueller. You inherited an FBI from
him in 2013 that you describe as very buttoned-up and
still had an overhang from the time of J. Edgar Hoover,
where the mainmotivation was to tell the boss what he
wanted to hear. Did that surprise you?
Not entirely. I’d come from eight years in the pri-
vate sector where transparency is something that’s
always talked about. I was a little surprised, though
maybe I shouldn’t have been knowing that Hoover
had been in charge for half a century, that it was less
modern than I’d expected in terms of that culture.
It’s ironic that an agency dedicated to inding the truth
struggles from a lack of transparency.
That struck me, too. And a lot of what I did during
my four years as director was to get people to feel
safe enough around me to tell me the truth.
How’d you do that?
In lots of ways, some small, some big. I tried to
issue an edict on how people should dress around
me, with no outer garments. If you dress like you’re
in church, you’ll act like you’re in church. I took the
wild step of wearing blue shirts, and it’s something
everybody noticed—it was a signal that I wanted a
diferent approach.
Do you thinkMueller struck some as too intimidating,
and the effect on people kept them from opening up?
Did you try to be more approachable?
I think that’s fair. I think he’s a better leader
than I in some respects. I don’t know that I
could’ve accomplished what he did after 9/11
because I don’t know that I’m strong enough and
tough enough. When I inherited the FBI, my mis-
sion was to get it to relax a little bit and open up.
My goal was to get people to laugh more and to
communicate with me in a way that was difer-
ent than Bob.
What went through your mind when you heard
Mueller had been made special counsel?
Surprise at first, and then relief, because I
thought it was important to pursue the possibility
that there were tapes of my conversations with the
president, and if there was someone who was going
to go get the tapes, it would be Bob Mueller.
Other than Trump’s tweets do you have reason to
believe tapes exist?
I don’t.
What went through your mind when you learned that
Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein provided
legal cover for the rationale behind your iring?
I was surprised, given my encounters with him in
the days before. We met privately for him to seek my
advice about how to do his job. Four days later he
authored that memo. So that surprised me and dis-
appointed me. If you really had concerns about my
performance as FBI director, you would’ve told me
that instead of leading me to the opposite. And then
when I read it, I thought, that’s not the real deal.
Do you worry the Mueller investigation is taking
too long?
My view is that it’s moving very quickly. A whole
lot of evidence has emerged in the charges they’ve
brought. He’s got a really talented team. It’s not even
been a year since he was appointed.
Are you surprised that the Republican Party has
turned on the law-and-order institutions in the U.S.?
Yes. I’m shocked, disappointed, and disgusted.
Do you worry about the future of the GOP?
I do. I don’t know what it stands for, honestly,
and it’s going to have to answer those questions.
What are the values that the Republican Party stands
for? Rule of law? Really?
Are you still a Republican?
No.
When did you leave the party?
It kind of left me is how I think about it.
Would you ever consider running for oice?
No. That’s not my gig. It’s not in my DNA. I don’t
want to have to ask strangers for money.
—Matthew Philips and Chris Strohm
Thebest
leadersare
“confident
people, but
theyalsohave
humilityto
leaventhat
confidence,
andthey’re
toughand
kind”